The White House Steps Up Its Stonewalling | Deadline | MSNBC

LINKEDIN. DEADLINE WHITE HOUSE WITH DEADLINE WHITE HOUSE WITH NICOLLE WALLACE STARTS RIGHT NICOLLE WALLACE STARTS RIGHT NOW. NOW. >> HI, EVERYONE. >> HI, EVERYONE. IT'S 4:00 IN NEW YORK. IT'S 4:00 IN NEW YORK. THE TRUMP BABY BLIMP SOARS ABOVE THE TRUMP BABY BLIMP SOARS ABOVE MASSIVE PROTESTS OF DONALD TRUMP MASSIVE PROTESTS OF DONALD TRUMP TODAY IN LONDON. TODAY IN LONDON. THE WHITE HOUSE ORDERS HOPE THE WHITE HOUSE ORDERS HOPE HICKS TO DEFY A CONGRESSIONAL HICKS TO DEFY A CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOENA AND DEMOCRATS INCH SUBPOENA AND DEMOCRATS INCH TOWARD IMPEACHMENT BY CALLING TOWARD IMPEACHMENT BY CALLING NIXON WHISTLEBLOWER JOHN DEAN TO NIXON WHISTLEBLOWER JOHN DEAN TO TESTIFY AS PART OF THE MUELLER TESTIFY AS PART OF THE MUELLER HEARINGS. HEARINGS. WELCOME TO A BUSY TUESDAY. WELCOME TO A BUSY TUESDAY. WE'LL START WITH THOSE PROTESTS WE'LL START WITH THOSE PROTESTS UNDER WAY IN LONDON. UNDER WAY IN LONDON. TRUMP JUST FINISHING UP A DAY OF TRUMP JUST FINISHING UP A DAY OF MEETINGS INCLUDING WITH OUTGOING MEETINGS INCLUDING WITH OUTGOING PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY IN AN PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY IN AN ATTEMPT TO SHORE UP AN ATTEMPT TO SHORE UP AN INCREASINGLY FRAGILE INCREASINGLY FRAGILE RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR CLOSEST RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR CLOSEST ALLY. ALLY. IF HE NEEDS TO MOVE THROUGH IF HE NEEDS TO MOVE THROUGH LONDON TODAY, HE WILL NO DOUBT LONDON TODAY, HE WILL NO DOUBT COME ACROSS MASSIVE PROTESTS COME ACROSS MASSIVE PROTESTS THERE IN HONOR OF HIS PRESENCE THERE IN HONOR OF HIS PRESENCE IN THE UK. IN THE UK. ALSO PROTESTING TODAY, HOUSE ALSO PROTESTING TODAY, HOUSE DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE GIVEN FORMER DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE GIVEN FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE ADVISER HOPE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE ADVISER HOPE HICKS UNTIL TODAY TO COMPLY WITH HICKS UNTIL TODAY TO COMPLY WITH THE SUBPOENA FOR DOCUMENTS THE SUBPOENA FOR DOCUMENTS RELATED TO HER TESTIMONY TO RELATED TO HER TESTIMONY TO SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT MUELLER. SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT MUELLER. HICKS TODAY DEFYING THAT HICKS TODAY DEFYING THAT SUBPOENA AND MISSING A DEADLINE SUBPOENA AND MISSING A DEADLINE FOR THOSE DOCUMENTS. FOR THOSE DOCUMENTS. THE WHITE HOUSE ORDERING HICKS, THE WHITE HOUSE ORDERING HICKS, AS WELL AS FORMER WHITE HOUSE AS WELL AS FORMER WHITE HOUSE LAWYER ANNIE DONALDSON TO DEFY LAWYER ANNIE DONALDSON TO DEFY CONGRESS AND JOIN THE CONGRESS AND JOIN THE STONEWALLING CAMPAIGN. STONEWALLING CAMPAIGN. HOUSE CHAIRMAN JERRY NADLER HOUSE CHAIRMAN JERRY NADLER RESPONDING TODAY WITH THIS RESPONDING TODAY WITH THIS STATEMENT, QUOTE, THE PRESIDENT STATEMENT, QUOTE, THE PRESIDENT HAS NO LAWFUL BASIS FOR HAS NO LAWFUL BASIS FOR PREVENTING THESE WITNESSES FROM PREVENTING THESE WITNESSES FROM COMPLYING WITH OUR REQUEST. COMPLYING WITH OUR REQUEST. WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEEK WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEEK REASONABLE COM DAPGS ON-- REASONABLE COM DAPGS ON-- ACCOMMODATION ON THESE AND ALL ACCOMMODATION ON THESE AND ALL DISCOVERY REQUESTS. DISCOVERY REQUESTS. THE HOUSE ALSO ANNOUNCING ITS THE HOUSE ALSO ANNOUNCING ITS PLAN TO VOTE NEXT WEEK TO HOLD PLAN TO VOTE NEXT WEEK TO HOLD ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR AND FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL AND FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL DONALD McGAHN ON CONTEMPT AND DONALD McGAHN ON CONTEMPT AND PROCEED WITH HEARINGS FROM THE PROCEED WITH HEARINGS FROM THE MUELLER REPORT TUESDAY. MUELLER REPORT TUESDAY. THE TWIN ANNOUNCEMENTS WERE THE THE TWIN ANNOUNCEMENTS WERE THE PARTY'S LATEST ATTEMPTS TO PARTY'S LATEST ATTEMPTS TO KICK-START STALLED KICK-START STALLED INVESTIGATIONS INTO ACCUSATIONS INVESTIGATIONS INTO ACCUSATIONS OF MALFEASANCE AND FORCE KEY OF MALFEASANCE AND FORCE KEY WITNESSES RESISTING OVERSIGHT WITNESSES RESISTING OVERSIGHT DEMANDS INTO COMPLIANCE. DEMANDS INTO COMPLIANCE. ON THE MORE AGGRESSIVE POSTURE ON THE MORE AGGRESSIVE POSTURE FROM THE DEMOCRATS, STENY HOYER, FROM THE DEMOCRATS, STENY HOYER, THE NUMBER TWO DEMOCRAT IN THE THE NUMBER TWO DEMOCRAT IN THE HOUSE ISSUING THIS STATEMENT, HOUSE ISSUING THIS STATEMENT, QUOTE, THIS ADMINISTRATION QUOTE, THIS ADMINISTRATION SYSTEMATIC REFUSAL TO PROVIDE SYSTEMATIC REFUSAL TO PROVIDE CONGRESS WITH ANSWERS AND CONGRESS WITH ANSWERS AND COOPERATE WITH CONGRESSIONAL COOPERATE WITH CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOENAS IS THE BIGGEST SUBPOENAS IS THE BIGGEST COVER-UP IN AMERICAN HISTORY. COVER-UP IN AMERICAN HISTORY. AND CONGRESS HAS A AND CONGRESS HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE OVERSIGHT ON BEHALF OF THE OVERSIGHT ON BEHALF OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. AMERICAN PEOPLE. THAT IS WHERE WE START TODAY THAT IS WHERE WE START TODAY WITH SOME OF OUR FAVORITE WITH SOME OF OUR FAVORITE REPORTERS AND FRIENDS. REPORTERS AND FRIENDS. THE HOST OF SATURDAY NIGHT THE HOST OF SATURDAY NIGHT POLITICS HERE ON MSNBC SHAKING POLITICS HERE ON MSNBC SHAKING UP SATURDAY NIGHT, DONNY UP SATURDAY NIGHT, DONNY DEUTSCH, SAM STEIN POLITICS DEUTSCH, SAM STEIN POLITICS EDITOR FOR "DAILY BEAST" SHAKING EDITOR FOR "DAILY BEAST" SHAKING UP EVERYTHING ELSE. UP EVERYTHING ELSE. TIM O'BRIEN EXECUTIVE EDITOR FOR TIM O'BRIEN EXECUTIVE EDITOR FOR BLOOMBERG OPINION AND FORMER BLOOMBERG OPINION AND FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY JOYCE VANCE IS U.S. ATTORNEY JOYCE VANCE IS WITH US. WITH US. FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR COUNTER-INTELLIGENCE AT THE FBI COUNTER-INTELLIGENCE AT THE FBI FRANK FIGLIUZZI JOINS US. FRANK FIGLIUZZI JOINS US. SAM STEIN, I READ YOUR REPORT, SAM STEIN, I READ YOUR REPORT, THIS IS MY WORD, A BIT OF AN THIS IS MY WORD, A BIT OF AN INSURRECTION AGAINST NANCY INSURRECTION AGAINST NANCY PELOSI AND THE LEADERSHIP. PELOSI AND THE LEADERSHIP. WHAT I WANT TO ASK YOU IS IF WHAT I WANT TO ASK YOU IS IF THAT IS BEHIND OR CONTRIBUTING THAT IS BEHIND OR CONTRIBUTING TO WHAT IS DEFINITELY MORE TO WHAT IS DEFINITELY MORE AGGRESSIVE POSTURE, MORE LEANING AGGRESSIVE POSTURE, MORE LEANING IN TODAY. IN TODAY. >> SO WHERE WE STAND RIGHT NOW, >> SO WHERE WE STAND RIGHT NOW, THERE'S A FACTION OF HOUSE THERE'S A FACTION OF HOUSE DEMOCRATS WHO FAVOR IMPEACHMENT, DEMOCRATS WHO FAVOR IMPEACHMENT, OVER 50, WELL OVER 50. OVER 50, WELL OVER 50. STILL OBVIOUSLY NOT A MAJORITY. STILL OBVIOUSLY NOT A MAJORITY. THEY HAVE BEGUN TO START WHAT IS THEY HAVE BEGUN TO START WHAT IS KNOWN AS AN ORGANIC WHIP KNOWN AS AN ORGANIC WHIP PROCESS, TRYING TO GET OTHER PROCESS, TRYING TO GET OTHER MEMBERS ON THE FENCE TO SUPPORT MEMBERS ON THE FENCE TO SUPPORT GOING TO IMPEACHMENT GOING TO IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS, IF YOU WANT TO PROCEEDINGS, IF YOU WANT TO DESCRIBE IT AS AN INSURRECTION. DESCRIBE IT AS AN INSURRECTION. NANCY PELOSI HAS BEEN SAYING WE NANCY PELOSI HAS BEEN SAYING WE NEED TO PUMP THE BREAK, SAYING NEED TO PUMP THE BREAK, SAYING IT'S POLITICALLY IMPRUDENT TO DO IT'S POLITICALLY IMPRUDENT TO DO SO. SO. THERE ARE TENSIONS. THERE ARE TENSIONS. HOUSE LEADERSHIP GENERALLY KNOWS HOUSE LEADERSHIP GENERALLY KNOWS THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO TAMP THIS DOWN. TAMP THIS DOWN. OCCASIONALLY THEY CAN LET AIR OCCASIONALLY THEY CAN LET AIR OUT OF THE BALLOON, PLUS GO TO OUT OF THE BALLOON, PLUS GO TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND HAVE A THE WHITE HOUSE AND HAVE A CONFRONTATION WITH TRUMP. CONFRONTATION WITH TRUMP. PEOPLE SEEM TO BE RELIEVED AT PEOPLE SEEM TO BE RELIEVED AT THAT POINT. THAT POINT. ONE OF THE THINGS THEY ARE ONE OF THE THINGS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IS SHIFT THE FOCUS TRYING TO DO IS SHIFT THE FOCUS OF THESE HEARINGS AWAY FROM A OF THESE HEARINGS AWAY FROM A MORE PROCESS ARGUMENT AND MORE MORE PROCESS ARGUMENT AND MORE TOWARDS THE SUBSTANCE OF THE TOWARDS THE SUBSTANCE OF THE MUELLER REPORT. MUELLER REPORT. THE PROBLEM IS THEY ARE CALLING THE PROBLEM IS THEY ARE CALLING JOHN DEAN. JOHN DEAN. JOHN DEAN, WHILE HE MAY BE ABLE JOHN DEAN, WHILE HE MAY BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE PROCESS OF TO TALK ABOUT THE PROCESS OF IMPEACHMENT AND COVER-UPS IN IMPEACHMENT AND COVER-UPS IN GENERAL WAS AROUND NIXON GENERAL WAS AROUND NIXON ADMINISTRATION. ADMINISTRATION. THE ACTIVISTS IN THIS REALM WANT THE ACTIVISTS IN THIS REALM WANT TO SEE HAPPEN IS FOR THEM TO TO SEE HAPPEN IS FOR THEM TO CALL UP PEOPLE TANGENTIALLY CALL UP PEOPLE TANGENTIALLY CLOSE TO TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. CLOSE TO TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. MAY NOT BE SUBJECT TO EXECUTIVE MAY NOT BE SUBJECT TO EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE CLAIMS AND BRING THEM PRIVILEGE CLAIMS AND BRING THEM UP TO THE HILL. UP TO THE HILL. PEOPLE MENTIONED IN THE MUELLER PEOPLE MENTIONED IN THE MUELLER REPORT LIKE DMITRY SIMES. REPORT LIKE DMITRY SIMES. >> CHRIS CHRISTIE, ESSENTIAL TO >> CHRIS CHRISTIE, ESSENTIAL TO THE TRUMP INVESTIGATION, TRUMP THE TRUMP INVESTIGATION, TRUMP CALLED CRISTIE ABOUT FIRING CALLED CRISTIE ABOUT FIRING MUELLER AND HE WAS SENT OUT LIKE MUELLER AND HE WAS SENT OUT LIKE A POLITICAL HIT MAN. A POLITICAL HIT MAN. >> THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS INTO >> THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS INTO THIS THAN GOING AFTER DON McGAHN THIS THAN GOING AFTER DON McGAHN AND HOPE HICKS OF THE WORLD, WHO AND HOPE HICKS OF THE WORLD, WHO YOU KNOW WILL SAY NO. YOU KNOW WILL SAY NO. YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT LAYER AND YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT LAYER AND TRY TO GET IT FROM THAT. TRY TO GET IT FROM THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHY JOHN DEAN WAS I DON'T KNOW WHY JOHN DEAN WAS THE CHOICE BUT THEY WANT TO LAY THE CHOICE BUT THEY WANT TO LAY A FOUNDATION. A FOUNDATION. THAT'S THE STATE OF PLAY. THAT'S THE STATE OF PLAY. THERE ARE TENSIONS. THERE ARE TENSIONS. I DON'T WANT TO OVERSTATE I DON'T WANT TO OVERSTATE CLEARLY THE CONFERENCE IS BEHIND CLEARLY THE CONFERENCE IS BEHIND PELOSI. PELOSI. YOU HAVE MEMBERS TRYING TO YOU HAVE MEMBERS TRYING TO ENCOURAGE PRO IMPEACHMENT ENCOURAGE PRO IMPEACHMENT STANCES, IT'S GETTING MORE STANCES, IT'S GETTING MORE SERIOUS. SERIOUS. >> YOU'RE HAVING CONVERSATIONS >> YOU'RE HAVING CONVERSATIONS ON CAPITOL HILL, TOO, DONNY. ON CAPITOL HILL, TOO, DONNY. TELL US ABOUT THEM. TELL US ABOUT THEM. >> LET ME TALK ABOUT MY POINT OF >> LET ME TALK ABOUT MY POINT OF VIEW AS FAR AS THIS. VIEW AS FAR AS THIS. I TALKED ABOUT IT A LOT. I TALKED ABOUT IT A LOT. I THINK THERE'S A SIMPLE I THINK THERE'S A SIMPLE SOLUTION, NOT BINARY CHOICE OF SOLUTION, NOT BINARY CHOICE OF IMPEACH OR NOT IMPEACH, A THIRD IMPEACH OR NOT IMPEACH, A THIRD LAND, BRANDING LANE. LAND, BRANDING LANE. TAKE THE IMPEACHMENT WORD AWAY. TAKE THE IMPEACHMENT WORD AWAY. THE IMPEACHMENT WORD ENDS IN THE THE IMPEACHMENT WORD ENDS IN THE SENATE. SENATE. ONCE AGAIN YOU BASICALLY, I ONCE AGAIN YOU BASICALLY, I THINK THE DEMOCRATS SHOULD OWN THINK THE DEMOCRATS SHOULD OWN TRUMP AS A CRIMINAL AND SAY TRUMP AS A CRIMINAL AND SAY BASICALLY WE KNOW THAT MUELLER BASICALLY WE KNOW THAT MUELLER FOUND HIM GUILTY OF OBSTRUCTION FOUND HIM GUILTY OF OBSTRUCTION AND CRIMINAL ACT. AND CRIMINAL ACT. HE COULDN'T ACT BECAUSE OF DOJ HE COULDN'T ACT BECAUSE OF DOJ GUIDELINES, UNINDICTED GUIDELINES, UNINDICTED CO-CONSPIRATOR IN NEW YORK. CO-CONSPIRATOR IN NEW YORK. WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE WITH TRUMP CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS. TRUMP CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS. KEEP SAYING THOSE WORD. KEEP SAYING THOSE WORD. BRAND IT. BRAND IT. YOU WILL EVENTUALLY GET TO YOU WILL EVENTUALLY GET TO IMPEACHMENT WHEN PUBLIC OPINION IMPEACHMENT WHEN PUBLIC OPINION IS IN YOUR FAVOR AND WHEN YOU IS IN YOUR FAVOR AND WHEN YOU THINK -- I DON'T THINK YOU'LL THINK -- I DON'T THINK YOU'LL EVER GET TO THIS POINT WITH 20 EVER GET TO THIS POINT WITH 20 SENATORS. SENATORS. TO ME THE ANSWER IS STOP MAKING TO ME THE ANSWER IS STOP MAKING AN ARGUMENT ABOUT IMPEACHMENT. AN ARGUMENT ABOUT IMPEACHMENT. PUT THAT WORD TO THE SIDE. PUT THAT WORD TO THE SIDE. MAKE IT THE TRUMP CRIMINAL MAKE IT THE TRUMP CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS. INVESTIGATIONS. I DO BELIEVE IN THE COMING WEEK I DO BELIEVE IN THE COMING WEEK OR SO YOU'RE GOING TO START TO OR SO YOU'RE GOING TO START TO HEAR WORDS LIKE THAT. HEAR WORDS LIKE THAT. >> THEY DID THAT LAST SESSION >> THEY DID THAT LAST SESSION FOR BENGHAZI. FOR BENGHAZI. THEY CREATED A SELECT COMMITTEE THEY CREATED A SELECT COMMITTEE OF LAWMAKERS, REMOVED IT FROM OF LAWMAKERS, REMOVED IT FROM THE TRADITIONAL COMMITTEE THE TRADITIONAL COMMITTEE PROCESS AND HAD ONE PROCESS AND HAD ONE INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE FOCUSED INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE FOCUSED ON BENGHAZI. ON BENGHAZI. >> EVEN IF IT'S NOT ONE, HAVE AN >> EVEN IF IT'S NOT ONE, HAVE AN OVERARCHING -- OVERARCHING -- >> THIS IS WHAT'S INTERESTING TO >> THIS IS WHAT'S INTERESTING TO ME ABOUT THE BENGHAZI COMMITTEE. ME ABOUT THE BENGHAZI COMMITTEE. DEMOCRATS AT THE TIME FACE A DEMOCRATS AT THE TIME FACE A CHOICE. CHOICE. DO THEY PARTICIPATE IN THAT DO THEY PARTICIPATE IN THAT ENTERPRISE. ENTERPRISE. THEY DECIDED ULTIMATELY TO DO THEY DECIDED ULTIMATELY TO DO SO, HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE. SO, HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE. I DON'T KNOW IF REPUBLICANS I DON'T KNOW IF REPUBLICANS WOULD DO SO. WOULD DO SO. TO YOUR POINT, I THINK IT DOES TO YOUR POINT, I THINK IT DOES PUT REPUBLICANS ON THE DEFENSIVE PUT REPUBLICANS ON THE DEFENSIVE A LITTLE BIT TEEN A LITTLE BIT TEEN INSTANTANEOUSLY. INSTANTANEOUSLY. >> LET HIM SAY HE'S NOT A CROOK >> LET HIM SAY HE'S NOT A CROOK LIKE NIXON. LIKE NIXON. >> FRANK FIGLIUZZI, I CAN'T >> FRANK FIGLIUZZI, I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M ABOUT TO SAY THIS. BELIEVE I'M ABOUT TO SAY THIS. DONNY MAKES GOOD OPPONENTS DONNY MAKES GOOD OPPONENTS THERE. THERE. I'M JUST KIDDING. I'M JUST KIDDING. >> THE SHOW DOESN'T WORK IF WE >> THE SHOW DOESN'T WORK IF WE AGREE. AGREE. I WANT TO PUSH BACK ON I WANT TO PUSH BACK ON SOMETHING. SOMETHING. >> DONNY MAKES SOME GOOD POINTS >> DONNY MAKES SOME GOOD POINTS BUT MARSHALLING EVIDENCE WITH BUT MARSHALLING EVIDENCE WITH THE GOAL OF MOVING PUBLIC THE GOAL OF MOVING PUBLIC OPINION IS A DIFFERENT ENDEAVOR OPINION IS A DIFFERENT ENDEAVOR THAN MARSHALLING EVIDENCE WITH THAN MARSHALLING EVIDENCE WITH THE GOAL OF CRIMINAL THE GOAL OF CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. PROSECUTION. I WANT TO ASK YOU WHERE YOU SEE I WANT TO ASK YOU WHERE YOU SEE THE INTERSECTION OF JOHN DEAN IN THE INTERSECTION OF JOHN DEAN IN THE WATERGATE ERA. THE WATERGATE ERA. I HEAR THIS IN MY INTERACTIONS I HEAR THIS IN MY INTERACTIONS OUTSIDE OF WORK. OUTSIDE OF WORK. IS THIS WATERGATE? IS THIS WATERGATE? I SAY IT'S SO MUCH WORSE THAN I SAY IT'S SO MUCH WORSE THAN WATERGATE, UNINDICTED WATERGATE, UNINDICTED CO-CONSPIRATOR, ROBERT MUELLER CO-CONSPIRATOR, ROBERT MUELLER SAID IF I COULD SAY HE COMMITTED SAID IF I COULD SAY HE COMMITTED CRIMES I WOULD. CRIMES I WOULD. TEN INCIDENTS OF OBSTRUCTIVE TEN INCIDENTS OF OBSTRUCTIVE CONDUCT. CONDUCT. ALL THE EVIDENCE, CHRIS CHRISTIE ALL THE EVIDENCE, CHRIS CHRISTIE AND CORY LEWANDOWSKI DON'T HAVE AND CORY LEWANDOWSKI DON'T HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON IF THEY ARE A LEG TO STAND ON IF THEY ARE CALLED BEFORE CONGRESS. CALLED BEFORE CONGRESS. WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE IF WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE IF CONGRESS HEADS DOWN THIS PATH, CONGRESS HEADS DOWN THIS PATH, FRANK? FRANK? >> SO A COUPLE OF THINGS. >> SO A COUPLE OF THINGS. ONE IS, SHOCKINGLY, YOU'RE ONE IS, SHOCKINGLY, YOU'RE RIGHT, DONNY HAS MADE A GREAT RIGHT, DONNY HAS MADE A GREAT POINT. POINT. >> BREAK GLASS. >> BREAK GLASS. >> A STRATEGY THAT SAYS, LOOK, >> A STRATEGY THAT SAYS, LOOK, WE'RE BEING STYMIED FROM WE'RE BEING STYMIED FROM IMPEACHMENT BECAUSE WE SIMPLY IMPEACHMENT BECAUSE WE SIMPLY CAN'T CALL FACT WITNESSES SO WE CAN'T CALL FACT WITNESSES SO WE HAVE A PLAN B MAKES SENSE TO ME HAVE A PLAN B MAKES SENSE TO ME IF IT PLAYS OUT IN THE PUBLIC IF IT PLAYS OUT IN THE PUBLIC EYE ON TELEVISION SCREENS, EYE ON TELEVISION SCREENS, PEOPLE GET TO SEE AND HEAR THE PEOPLE GET TO SEE AND HEAR THE CONTENTS OF THE REPORT AND ALL CONTENTS OF THE REPORT AND ALL THAT'S BEEN DONE WRONG BY THIS THAT'S BEEN DONE WRONG BY THIS PRESIDENT. PRESIDENT. HERE IS ALSO WHAT'S WRONG HERE IS ALSO WHAT'S WRONG SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THAT. SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THAT. WHAT UPSETS ME THE MOST IS THAT WHAT UPSETS ME THE MOST IS THAT IS AN ADMINISTRATION AND IS AN ADMINISTRATION AND ACQUIESCENCE THAT THIS WHITE ACQUIESCENCE THAT THIS WHITE HOUSE HAS TOTALLY OBSTRUCTED THE HOUSE HAS TOTALLY OBSTRUCTED THE OVERSIGHT THAT CONGRESS NEEDS TO OVERSIGHT THAT CONGRESS NEEDS TO HAVE. HAVE. WE'RE SAYING, OKAY, WE'RE WE'RE SAYING, OKAY, WE'RE STYMIED, WE'VE GOT ANOTHER STYMIED, WE'VE GOT ANOTHER STRATEGY, GREAT. STRATEGY, GREAT. I'M WORRIED ABOUT THE LONG-TERM I'M WORRIED ABOUT THE LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES OF THAT. CONSEQUENCES OF THAT. ARE WE, IN FACT, WATCHING THE ARE WE, IN FACT, WATCHING THE RESHAPING OF OUR FORM OF RESHAPING OF OUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT FROM A TIME WHEN WE GOVERNMENT FROM A TIME WHEN WE HAD THREE EQUAL BRANCHES OF HAD THREE EQUAL BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT TO A TIME WE'RE GOVERNMENT TO A TIME WE'RE MOVING TOWARD AN IMPERIAL MOVING TOWARD AN IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY. PRESIDENCY. FIVE, TEN YEARS FROM NOW, FIVE, TEN YEARS FROM NOW, NICOLLE, ARE WE GOING TO LOOK NICOLLE, ARE WE GOING TO LOOK BACK TO THE SUMMER OF 2019 AND BACK TO THE SUMMER OF 2019 AND SAY THAT'S WHEN IT STARTED, WHEN SAY THAT'S WHEN IT STARTED, WHEN OVERSIGHT STARTED TO ERODE AND OVERSIGHT STARTED TO ERODE AND WHEN WE OBTAINED AN IMPERIAL WHEN WE OBTAINED AN IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY. PRESIDENCY. I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING. I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING. >> I AGREE WITH THIS POINT. >> I AGREE WITH THIS POINT. I THINK WHEN YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE I THINK WHEN YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE LIKE JOHN YU, EXTREMELY LIKE JOHN YU, EXTREMELY POLARIZING AND UNPOPULAR ON THE POLARIZING AND UNPOPULAR ON THE FAR RIGHT AROUND LEGISLATIVE FAR RIGHT AROUND LEGISLATIVE BATTLES AFTER 9/11 SOUNDING THE BATTLES AFTER 9/11 SOUNDING THE ALARMS, I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. ALARMS, I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK MAKING THE MOST OF WHAT I THINK MAKING THE MOST OF WHAT YOU HAVE, I AGREE THIS IS THE YOU HAVE, I AGREE THIS IS THE WAY TO DO IT. WAY TO DO IT. THE TRUTH IS HOPE HICKS HAS THE TRUTH IS HOPE HICKS HAS DEFIED A SUBPOENA. DEFIED A SUBPOENA. DONALDSON DEFIED A SUBPOENA. DONALDSON DEFIED A SUBPOENA. THIS IS NORMALIZED BY THIS IS NORMALIZED BY ACCOMMODATIONS TO PLAN B AND ACCOMMODATIONS TO PLAN B AND PLAN C, ISN'T IT? PLAN C, ISN'T IT? >> EVERY CRIMINAL DEFENDANT I >> EVERY CRIMINAL DEFENDANT I INVESTIGATED WOULD HAVE LOVED TO INVESTIGATED WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE THE POWER THE PRESIDENT HAS HAVE THE POWER THE PRESIDENT HAS HERE TELLING WITNESSES JUST HERE TELLING WITNESSES JUST DON'T COMPLY WITH SUBPOENAS. DON'T COMPLY WITH SUBPOENAS. SO THIS CAN'T BE THE WAY OUR SO THIS CAN'T BE THE WAY OUR SYSTEM WORKS AND YET TRUMP SYSTEM WORKS AND YET TRUMP CONTINUES TO GET AWAY WITH IT. CONTINUES TO GET AWAY WITH IT. THE REAL CHALLENGE -- THE REAL CHALLENGE -- >> WHY? >> WHY? WHY? WHY? >> BECAUSE THERE'S NO ONE THERE >> BECAUSE THERE'S NO ONE THERE TO HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE. TO HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE. I THINK THIS IS HOW HE'S I THINK THIS IS HOW HE'S OPERATED THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE. OPERATED THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE. HE RECOGNIZED THE RULES WORK HE RECOGNIZED THE RULES WORK BECAUSE PEOPLE SELF-ENFORCE. BECAUSE PEOPLE SELF-ENFORCE. >> GUYS, ALL I'M SAYING. >> GUYS, ALL I'M SAYING. >> LET'S GET EVERYBODY IN. >> LET'S GET EVERYBODY IN. >> THE CHOICE IS RIGHT. >> THE CHOICE IS RIGHT. HE SPENT 70 YEARS POUNDING A HE SPENT 70 YEARS POUNDING A HAMMER ON ANYBODY WHO WALKS HAMMER ON ANYBODY WHO WALKS THROUGH HIS FRONT DOOR AND HE THROUGH HIS FRONT DOOR AND HE GOT AWAY WITH IT. GOT AWAY WITH IT. HE WAS INSULATED BY WEALTH AND HE WAS INSULATED BY WEALTH AND CELEBRITY AND PRESIDENCY. CELEBRITY AND PRESIDENCY. HE HAS THESE AMAZING THREE RINGS HE HAS THESE AMAZING THREE RINGS OF FIRE KEEPING HIM FROM BEING OF FIRE KEEPING HIM FROM BEING ACCOUNTABLE. ACCOUNTABLE. >> THAT'S AMAZING. >> THAT'S AMAZING. EXPLAIN MORE. EXPLAIN MORE. >> MOST PEOPLE GO THROUGH LIFE, >> MOST PEOPLE GO THROUGH LIFE, IF THEY MAKE MISTAKES OR BREAK IF THEY MAKE MISTAKES OR BREAK THE LAW THEY COURSE CORRECT AND THE LAW THEY COURSE CORRECT AND REFLECT AND GROW AND MOVE ON. REFLECT AND GROW AND MOVE ON. DONALD TRUMP HAD HIS FATHER'S DONALD TRUMP HAD HIS FATHER'S WEALTH INSULATING HIM FROM ALL WEALTH INSULATING HIM FROM ALL THE PROBLEMS SURROUNDING HIM THE PROBLEMS SURROUNDING HIM ACADEMICALLY, PROFESSIONALLY, ACADEMICALLY, PROFESSIONALLY, INCLUDING BANKRUPTCIES AS HE GOT INCLUDING BANKRUPTCIES AS HE GOT OLDER. OLDER. HE GOT CELEBRITY AROUND THE HE GOT CELEBRITY AROUND THE APPRENTICE, GOT THE GLOW OF APPRENTICE, GOT THE GLOW OF CELEBRITY MOJO. CELEBRITY MOJO. >> LITERALLY AND FIGURATIVELY. >> LITERALLY AND FIGURATIVELY. >> NOW HE HAS THE MOST POWERFUL >> NOW HE HAS THE MOST POWERFUL OFFICE IN THE LAND TO BOGGLE THE OFFICE IN THE LAND TO BOGGLE THE IMAGINATION ON TOP OF THE OTHER IMAGINATION ON TOP OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT GIVES HIM THINGS THAT GIVES HIM CONSTITUTIONAL PRIVILEGES. CONSTITUTIONAL PRIVILEGES. HE'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST HE'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST LAWLESS AND UNETHICAL PEOPLE TO LAWLESS AND UNETHICAL PEOPLE TO OCCUPY THE PRESIDENCY IN THE OCCUPY THE PRESIDENCY IN THE MODERN ERA BUT ALSO MASSIVELY MODERN ERA BUT ALSO MASSIVELY INSULATED FROM THE CONSEQUENCES INSULATED FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS OWN ACTIONS. OF HIS OWN ACTIONS. >> I JUST WANT TO SAY, THIS IS >> I JUST WANT TO SAY, THIS IS WHERE I SEE IT AS PARALLEL WHERE I SEE IT AS PARALLEL TRACKS. TRACKS. I APPRECIATE AND AGREE WITH THE I APPRECIATE AND AGREE WITH THE BRANDING EFFORT, AND I THINK BRANDING EFFORT, AND I THINK YOU'RE PROBABLY RIGHT, BUT I YOU'RE PROBABLY RIGHT, BUT I THINK THERE ARE CONSTITUTIONAL THINK THERE ARE CONSTITUTIONAL AND LEGISLATIVE NORMS. AND LEGISLATIVE NORMS. IF YOU READ THROUGH THE IF YOU READ THROUGH THE OBSTRUCTION VOLUME OF THE OBSTRUCTION VOLUME OF THE MUELLER REPORT, THESE WERE MUELLER REPORT, THESE WERE FLASHING YELLOW LIGHTS LIKE FLASHING YELLOW LIGHTS LIKE PEOPLE LIKE DON McGAHN AND ANNIE PEOPLE LIKE DON McGAHN AND ANNIE DONALDSON, HIS THREE RINGS OF DONALDSON, HIS THREE RINGS OF FIRE, LET HIM WIN. FIRE, LET HIM WIN. I SAID THIS BEFORE. I SAID THIS BEFORE. REPUBLICANS WHEN THEY WIN, IT'S REPUBLICANS WHEN THEY WIN, IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE BRUTAL AND BECAUSE THEY ARE BRUTAL AND RUTHLESS. RUTHLESS. THEY WERE READY TO IMPEACH ROD THEY WERE READY TO IMPEACH ROD ROSENSTEIN, WHO WAS A FELLOW ROSENSTEIN, WHO WAS A FELLOW REPUBLICAN. REPUBLICAN. DEMOCRATS ARE INTERESTED IN A DEMOCRATS ARE INTERESTED IN A BRANDING EFFORT. BRANDING EFFORT. I JUST WANT TO GET BACK TO THE I JUST WANT TO GET BACK TO THE LAWYERS. LAWYERS. ARE THERE REAL LEGAL EQUITIES TO ARE THERE REAL LEGAL EQUITIES TO LETTING -- NOT JUST LETTING, LETTING -- NOT JUST LETTING, ENCOURAGING AND DIRECTING ENCOURAGING AND DIRECTING EVERYONE WHO WORKED IN THE WHITE EVERYONE WHO WORKED IN THE WHITE HOUSE TO IGNORE SUBPOENAS. HOUSE TO IGNORE SUBPOENAS. >> THERE ARE REAL EQUITIES THAT >> THERE ARE REAL EQUITIES THAT NEED TO BE PROTECTED. NEED TO BE PROTECTED. THE FIRST THING IS THOSE FOLKS, THE FIRST THING IS THOSE FOLKS, ANNIE DONALDSON, HOPE HICKS, ANNIE DONALDSON, HOPE HICKS, THEY DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE THEY DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE PRESIDENT. PRESIDENT. THEY COULD DECIDE ALMOST JOHN THEY COULD DECIDE ALMOST JOHN DEAN STYLE TO SHOW UP AND TURN DEAN STYLE TO SHOW UP AND TURN OVER DOCUMENTS AND TO TESTIFY. OVER DOCUMENTS AND TO TESTIFY. THE PROBLEM IS THIS AS YOU POINT THE PROBLEM IS THIS AS YOU POINT OUT. OUT. THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN WILLING TO PLAY A RUTHLESS GAME WILLING TO PLAY A RUTHLESS GAME HERE. HERE. I THINK ABOUT IT THE WAY SOMEONE I THINK ABOUT IT THE WAY SOMEONE THINKS ABOUT IT AS A CARD GAME THINKS ABOUT IT AS A CARD GAME YOU PLAY MULTIPLE HANDS. YOU PLAY MULTIPLE HANDS. IF YOU'RE SO FOCUSED ON WINNING IF YOU'RE SO FOCUSED ON WINNING ONE HAND THAT YOU'RE WILLING TO ONE HAND THAT YOU'RE WILLING TO BLOW UP THE ENTIRE GAME TO WIN, BLOW UP THE ENTIRE GAME TO WIN, THERE'S NO GAME LEFT TO THERE'S NO GAME LEFT TO PENSACOLA. PLAY. PENSACOLA. PLAY. >> WE'RE SAYING THE SAME THING. >> WE'RE SAYING THE SAME THING. RIGHT NOW, SO YOU DON'T MAKE RIGHT NOW, SO YOU DON'T MAKE IT -- THEY ALREADY WON TWO IT -- THEY ALREADY WON TWO CASES. CASES. THE JUDGE FOUND FOR THE THE JUDGE FOUND FOR THE DEMOCRATS IN TWO INSTANCES OF DEMOCRATS IN TWO INSTANCES OF TRUMP NOT WANTING TO RELEASE. TRUMP NOT WANTING TO RELEASE. KEEP THAT UP. KEEP THAT UP. I'M SAYING DON'T ASSIGN I'M SAYING DON'T ASSIGN IMPEACHMENT. IMPEACHMENT. IT'S A 20-MONTH BUSINESS PLAN. IT'S A 20-MONTH BUSINESS PLAN. THESE ARE ALL PART OF THE TRUMP THESE ARE ALL PART OF THE TRUMP INVESTIGATIONS. INVESTIGATIONS. I'M NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD STAND I'M NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD STAND BY AND NOT LET HOPE HICKS BY AND NOT LET HOPE HICKS TESTIFY. TESTIFY. ALL I'M SAYING IS DON'T PUT IT ALL I'M SAYING IS DON'T PUT IT ALL UNDER THE IMPEACHMENT ALL UNDER THE IMPEACHMENT UMBRELLA. UMBRELLA. THAT ALLOWS THEM TO PLAY A GAME THAT ALLOWS THEM TO PLAY A GAME THEY ARE GOING TO WIN AND TRUMP THEY ARE GOING TO WIN AND TRUMP TO TAKE THE NARRATIVE THEY ARE TO TAKE THE NARRATIVE THEY ARE OUT TO GET ME. OUT TO GET ME. LET THE NARRATIVE BE TRUMP LET THE NARRATIVE BE TRUMP SAYING I'M NOT A CRIMINAL, I'M SAYING I'M NOT A CRIMINAL, I'M NOT A CRIMINAL. NOT A CRIMINAL. IT'S NOT BRANDING IN LIEU OF BUT IT'S NOT BRANDING IN LIEU OF BUT AN OVERARCHING UMBRELLA. AN OVERARCHING UMBRELLA. I'M SAYING CONVICT HIM IN THE I'M SAYING CONVICT HIM IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION. COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION. BE MORE RUTHLESS. BE MORE RUTHLESS. DON'T LEAVE IT TO THE SENATE. DON'T LEAVE IT TO THE SENATE. CONVICT HIM AS A CRIMINAL NOW. CONVICT HIM AS A CRIMINAL NOW. >> INTERNALLY HOUSE DEMOCRATS >> INTERNALLY HOUSE DEMOCRATS ARE WITH YOU. ARE WITH YOU. THEY FELT -- IT'S BEEN SIX, THEY FELT -- IT'S BEEN SIX, SEVEN WEEKS SINCE THE MUELLER SEVEN WEEKS SINCE THE MUELLER REPORT AND THE ENTIRE ARGUMENT REPORT AND THE ENTIRE ARGUMENT IS SEMANTICS, IS IMPEACHMENT A IS SEMANTICS, IS IMPEACHMENT A POLITICALLY VIABLE IDEA, WHERE POLITICALLY VIABLE IDEA, WHERE ARE THE VOTES. ARE THE VOTES. VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT THE SUBSTANCE OF TALKING ABOUT THE SUBSTANCE OF THE MUELLER REPORT. THE MUELLER REPORT. OBVIOUSLY FEW PEOPLE HAVE READ OBVIOUSLY FEW PEOPLE HAVE READ THE MUELLER REPORT. THE MUELLER REPORT. TACTICALLY WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TACTICALLY WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO AT THIS JUNCTURE IS TO TO DO AT THIS JUNCTURE IS TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC TO THE EXTENT EDUCATE THE PUBLIC TO THE EXTENT THEY CAN ABOUT WHAT IS ACTUALLY THEY CAN ABOUT WHAT IS ACTUALLY THE SUBSTANCE OF THE REPORT THE SUBSTANCE OF THE REPORT ITSELF. ITSELF. MY SUSPICIOUS IS THAT BY CALLING MY SUSPICIOUS IS THAT BY CALLING JOHN DEAN IN, YOU CAN HAVE A JOHN DEAN IN, YOU CAN HAVE A MORE THOROUGH COMPREHENSIVE MORE THOROUGH COMPREHENSIVE ARGUMENT ABOUT WHAT PRESIDENTIAL ARGUMENT ABOUT WHAT PRESIDENTIAL POWERS AND THE ABUSE OF THEM POWERS AND THE ABUSE OF THEM ARE. ARE. >> AND YOU ALSO PUT IT ON TV. >> AND YOU ALSO PUT IT ON TV. >> THEY RECOGNIZE THAT, TOO. >> THEY RECOGNIZE THAT, TOO. I DON'T KNOW IF CABLE IS GOING I DON'T KNOW IF CABLE IS GOING TO GO WALL-TO-WALL ON JOHN DEAN, TO GO WALL-TO-WALL ON JOHN DEAN, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE PREDICATE BUT YOU CAN SEE THE PREDICATE BEING LAID FOR MAYBE A CHRIS BEING LAID FOR MAYBE A CHRIS CHRISTIE BEING CALLED UP. CHRISTIE BEING CALLED UP. THE ONE THING I WOULD SAY IS THE ONE THING I WOULD SAY IS THERE ARE THINGS THAT COULD PUSH THERE ARE THINGS THAT COULD PUSH BACK AGAINST THE PRESIDENT WE BACK AGAINST THE PRESIDENT WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT. HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT. THE ONE THING IS THE COURTS, IN THE ONE THING IS THE COURTS, IN TWO CASES THEY HAVE, THE OTHER TWO CASES THEY HAVE, THE OTHER IS CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS. IS CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS. CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS COULD CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS COULD FOR RESPECT TO THE INSTITUTION FOR RESPECT TO THE INSTITUTION OF CONGRESS BE SPEAKING MORE OF CONGRESS BE SPEAKING MORE FORCEFULLY SAYING THIS IS NOT A FORCEFULLY SAYING THIS IS NOT A GOOD PRECEDENT TO SET. GOOD PRECEDENT TO SET. THOUGH WE DISAGREE WITH THOUGH WE DISAGREE WITH INQUIRIES, THE PRESIDENT SHOULD INQUIRIES, THE PRESIDENT SHOULD COMPLY WITH THEM. COMPLY WITH THEM. WE'VE HEARD SURPRISING LITTLE OF WE'VE HEARD SURPRISING LITTLE OF ANYTHING, EXCEPT JUSTIN AMASH, ANYTHING, EXCEPT JUSTIN AMASH, AND THE DAMAGE IS NOT AND THE DAMAGE IS NOT NECESSARILY SHORT-TERM BUT NECESSARILY SHORT-TERM BUT LONG-TERM AND THE INSTITUTION OF LONG-TERM AND THE INSTITUTION OF CONGRESS WILL SUFFER THE CONGRESS WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES HERE. CONSEQUENCES HERE. >> FRANK FIGLIUZZI, I WOULD BET >> FRANK FIGLIUZZI, I WOULD BET A DOZEN DOUGHNUTS EVERY DAY FOR A DOZEN DOUGHNUTS EVERY DAY FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE ON THIS THE REST OF MY LIFE ON THIS BEING TRUE. BEING TRUE. IF THIS WERE A DEMOCRATIC IF THIS WERE A DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATION, REPUBLICANS ADMINISTRATION, REPUBLICANS WOULD HAVE PROCEEDED TO WOULD HAVE PROCEEDED TO IMPEACHMENT. IMPEACHMENT. THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT AFTER THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT AFTER COHEN SENTENCING MEMO REVEALED COHEN SENTENCING MEMO REVEALED DONALD TRUMP AS UNINDICTED DONALD TRUMP AS UNINDICTED CO-CONSPIRATOR, FELON, CAMPAIGN CO-CONSPIRATOR, FELON, CAMPAIGN VIOLATION. VIOLATION. THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT BEFORE THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT BEFORE MUELLER INTO BUT AFTER THE MUELLER INTO BUT AFTER THE REPORT CAME OUT. REPORT CAME OUT. THEY WOULD HAVE FIGURED OUT HOW THEY WOULD HAVE FIGURED OUT HOW TO TAKE THOSE 10 INCIDENTS OF TO TAKE THOSE 10 INCIDENTS OF OBSTRUCTION, EVEN THE SENTENCE OBSTRUCTION, EVEN THE SENTENCE FRAGMENT OF BARR'S HIGHLY EDITED FRAGMENT OF BARR'S HIGHLY EDITED APPEARANCE THAT SAYS DOES NOT APPEARANCE THAT SAYS DOES NOT EXONERATE AND WE WOULD BE IN THE EXONERATE AND WE WOULD BE IN THE MIDDLE OF -- THE SHOW WOULDN'T MIDDLE OF -- THE SHOW WOULDN'T BE ON. BE ON. WE WOULD BE SITTING IN WE WOULD BE SITTING IN IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS. IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS. >> IT'S ALWAYS A HELPFUL >> IT'S ALWAYS A HELPFUL EXERCISE TO ASK YOURSELF TO EXERCISE TO ASK YOURSELF TO CHANGE THE SHOES. CHANGE THE SHOES. IF I WERE ON THE OTHER SIDE, IF I WERE ON THE OTHER SIDE, WHAT WOULD THIS LOOK LIKE. WHAT WOULD THIS LOOK LIKE. CLEARLY WE WOULD BE SEEING GOP CLEARLY WE WOULD BE SEEING GOP HEADS EXPLODE ON CAPITOL HILL IF HEADS EXPLODE ON CAPITOL HILL IF IT WERE DEMOCRATS RESISTING LIKE IT WERE DEMOCRATS RESISTING LIKE THIS. THIS. THAT'S COUNTER TO THE ARGUMENT THAT'S COUNTER TO THE ARGUMENT THAT WE SHOULD KIND OF DO THINGS THAT WE SHOULD KIND OF DO THINGS SIMULTANEOUSLY OR JUST PURSUE SIMULTANEOUSLY OR JUST PURSUE ONE AVENUE. ONE AVENUE. THE PROBLEM IS THAT IF WE ALLOW THE PROBLEM IS THAT IF WE ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN, LAUER OUR THIS TO HAPPEN, LAUER OUR GOVERNMENT TO LITERALLY BE GOVERNMENT TO LITERALLY BE RESHAPED IN TERMS OF THE POWERS RESHAPED IN TERMS OF THE POWERS OF EACH BRANCH, SOMEDAY ANOTHER OF EACH BRANCH, SOMEDAY ANOTHER PARTY WILL BE IN POWER. PARTY WILL BE IN POWER. ON THAT DAY WE SHOULD NOT EXPECT ON THAT DAY WE SHOULD NOT EXPECT THAT PARTY TO DO THE RIGHT THAT PARTY TO DO THE RIGHT THING. THING. IT IS HUMAN NATURE TO SAY I'LL IT IS HUMAN NATURE TO SAY I'LL TAKE THE MORE POWERFUL POSITION TAKE THE MORE POWERFUL POSITION HERE. HERE. IF THEY DIDN'T DO IT, I'LL DO IF THEY DIDN'T DO IT, I'LL DO IT. IT. THAT'S WHY I CONTINUE TO SAY, THAT'S WHY I CONTINUE TO SAY, WITHOUT TRYING TO BE OVERALL WITHOUT TRYING TO BE OVERALL DRAMATIC, WE COULD BE WATCHING DRAMATIC, WE COULD BE WATCHING THE RESHAPING OF OUR DEMOCRATIC THE RESHAPING OF OUR DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES. PRINCIPLES. THAT'S WHY WE'VE GOT TO HAVE THAT'S WHY WE'VE GOT TO HAVE CONGRESS COME OUT AND SAY, LOOK, CONGRESS COME OUT AND SAY, LOOK, WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING ISN'T JUST A POLITICAL BATTLE ISN'T JUST A POLITICAL BATTLE OVER SPECIFIC PIECES OF OVER SPECIFIC PIECES OF EVIDENCE, IT'S AN OUTRIGHT EVIDENCE, IT'S AN OUTRIGHT REJECTION OF OVERSIGHT DUTIES. REJECTION OF OVERSIGHT DUTIES. THEREFORE, HE SHOULD BE THEREFORE, HE SHOULD BE IMPEACHED FOR THAT ALONE. IMPEACHED FOR THAT ALONE. >> FRANK, I WENT BACK AND >> FRANK, I WENT BACK AND READ -- I ALWAYS TRY TO READ A READ -- I ALWAYS TRY TO READ A LITTLE BIT OF NIXON HISTORY LITTLE BIT OF NIXON HISTORY BEFORE I COME ON TELEVISION AND BEFORE I COME ON TELEVISION AND TALK ABOUT IMPEACHMENT. TALK ABOUT IMPEACHMENT. ULTIMATELY NOT IMPEACHED. ULTIMATELY NOT IMPEACHED. THE CONVERSATIONS AROUND THE CONVERSATIONS AROUND IMPEACHMENT, THE FIRST ONES IMPEACHMENT, THE FIRST ONES WEREN'T EVEN ABOUT WATERGATE, WEREN'T EVEN ABOUT WATERGATE, HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS AS HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS AS IT PERTAINED TO OTHER CONDUCT. IT PERTAINED TO OTHER CONDUCT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PRESIDENT'S IF YOU LOOK AT THE PRESIDENT'S CONDUCT, YOU COULD TAKE THE CONDUCT, YOU COULD TAKE THE PRESIDENT'S IMMIGRATION PRESIDENT'S IMMIGRATION POLICIES, BABIES IN VANS FOR POLICIES, BABIES IN VANS FOR NINE HOURS. NINE HOURS. SUCH TARGET RICH IF YOU WANT TO SUCH TARGET RICH IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT EVIDENCE. LOOK AT EVIDENCE. I UNDERSTAND, AND BELIEVE ME AS I UNDERSTAND, AND BELIEVE ME AS A FORMER COMMUNICATOR, I A FORMER COMMUNICATOR, I APPRECIATE AND SYMPATHIZE WITH APPRECIATE AND SYMPATHIZE WITH THE CHALLENGE TO GET AIR TIME, THE CHALLENGE TO GET AIR TIME, BANDWIDTH ON THE PUBLIC'S WEARY BANDWIDTH ON THE PUBLIC'S WEARY AND ANXIOUS ATTENTION SPAN. AND ANXIOUS ATTENTION SPAN. IT WOULD SEEM THERE'S NOTHING IT WOULD SEEM THERE'S NOTHING MORE URGENT THAN PEELING APART MORE URGENT THAN PEELING APART THE PUBLIC CONDUCT, THE CONDUCT THE PUBLIC CONDUCT, THE CONDUCT THAT AT LEAST ROBERT MUELLER, THAT AT LEAST ROBERT MUELLER, WHO WAS UNIMPEACHABLE, THE VAST WHO WAS UNIMPEACHABLE, THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS HE SKOONT MAJORITY OF AMERICANS HE SKOONT DESCRIBE AS NONCRIMINAL AND DESCRIBE AS NONCRIMINAL AND SCRUTINIZE IT ANY WAY THEY CAN SCRUTINIZE IT ANY WAY THEY CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO. FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO. >> I THINK IF YOU INCLUDE >> I THINK IF YOU INCLUDE MUELLER AS A LARGER TOTALITY OF MUELLER AS A LARGER TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES, TAKE THE THE CIRCUMSTANCES, TAKE THE REPORT PLUS, THE REPORT ON REPORT PLUS, THE REPORT ON STEROIDS AS YOU'RE SAYING AND STEROIDS AS YOU'RE SAYING AND ALL THE OTHER REASONS WHY THIS ALL THE OTHER REASONS WHY THIS PRESIDENT HAS FAILED IN HIS PRESIDENT HAS FAILED IN HIS OFFICE, THEN YOU DO HAVE A BODY OFFICE, THEN YOU DO HAVE A BODY OF EVIDENCE. OF EVIDENCE. THE CHALLENGE OF DONNY'S THE CHALLENGE OF DONNY'S APPROACH, THOUGH, IS THE FACT APPROACH, THOUGH, IS THE FACT WITNESSES. WITNESSES. THE QUESTION IS HOW MANY FACT THE QUESTION IS HOW MANY FACT WITNESSES CAN REALLY BE ALLOWED WITNESSES CAN REALLY BE ALLOWED TO SHOW UP. TO SHOW UP. DO PEOPLE ON THE PERIPHERY, EVEN DO PEOPLE ON THE PERIPHERY, EVEN THE CHRIS CHRISTIES OF THE THE CHRIS CHRISTIES OF THE WORLD, DO THEY ADD TO THE BODY WORLD, DO THEY ADD TO THE BODY OF EVIDENCE? OF EVIDENCE? DO WE NEED TO TAKE THE REPORT DO WE NEED TO TAKE THE REPORT AND ENTER IT INTO EVIDENCE AND AND ENTER IT INTO EVIDENCE AND SAY THAT'S IT? SAY THAT'S IT? HOW DO WE GET THIS BEFORE THE HOW DO WE GET THIS BEFORE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND WHAT AMERICAN PEOPLE AND WHAT CONSTITUTES SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE. CONSTITUTES SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE. >> I THINK IT WAS SAM TALKING >> I THINK IT WAS SAM TALKING ABOUT PROCESS. ABOUT PROCESS. WE'VE SPENT 18 MINUTES TALKING WE'VE SPENT 18 MINUTES TALKING ABOUT PROCESS. ABOUT PROCESS. WHEN WE HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS WHEN WE HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS REMINDING PEOPLE WHAT MUELLER REMINDING PEOPLE WHAT MUELLER FOUND IT'S A DISSERVICE, JUST DO FOUND IT'S A DISSERVICE, JUST DO THAT FOR ME FOR THIS HOUR. THAT FOR ME FOR THIS HOUR. WHAT DID MUELLER FIND IN VOLUMES WHAT DID MUELLER FIND IN VOLUMES 1 AND 2. 1 AND 2. >> THE ATTORNEY GENERAL GAVE >> THE ATTORNEY GENERAL GAVE TRUMP THE ABILITY TO GO OUT AND TRUMP THE ABILITY TO GO OUT AND TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT THE REPORT FOUND NO COLLUSION THE REPORT FOUND NO COLLUSION AND NO OBSTRUCTION. AND NO OBSTRUCTION. THAT'S NOT TRUE. THAT'S NOT TRUE. THE REPORT CONSIDERED THE REPORT CONSIDERED CONSPIRACY, NOT COLLUSION AND CONSPIRACY, NOT COLLUSION AND SAID THERE WAS NOT SUFFICIENT SAID THERE WAS NOT SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE OF CONSPIRACY TO EVIDENCE OF CONSPIRACY TO INDICT. INDICT. THEN THE REPORT LOOKED AT THEN THE REPORT LOOKED AT OBSTRUCTION. OBSTRUCTION. AFTER RELATING AT LEAST 12 AFTER RELATING AT LEAST 12 CIRCUMSTANCES -- 12 INSTANCES OF CIRCUMSTANCES -- 12 INSTANCES OF CONDUCT WHERE THE PRESIDENT CONDUCT WHERE THE PRESIDENT COULD HAVE BEEN INDICTED FOR COULD HAVE BEEN INDICTED FOR OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, BOB OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, BOB MUELLER CONCLUDED THAT HE COULD MUELLER CONCLUDED THAT HE COULD NOT SAY THE PRESIDENT WAS NOT NOT SAY THE PRESIDENT WAS NOT CULPABLE OF THE CRIME OF CULPABLE OF THE CRIME OF OBSTRUCTION. OBSTRUCTION. HE COULD NOT INDICT HIM BECAUSE HE COULD NOT INDICT HIM BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE JURISDICTION. HE DIDN'T HAVE JURISDICTION. HE STRONGLY IMPLIED ONLY HE STRONGLY IMPLIED ONLY CONGRESS DID. CONGRESS DID. HE SAID, I CANNOT EXONERATE THE HE SAID, I CANNOT EXONERATE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES FOR HAVING COMMITTED THE CRIME FOR HAVING COMMITTED THE CRIME OF OBSTRUCTION. OF OBSTRUCTION. >> BECAUSE THIS WHOLE >> BECAUSE THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION FRAMED BY YOUR CONVERSATION FRAMED BY YOUR ARGUMENT, I WANT TO GIVE YOU THE ARGUMENT, I WANT TO GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD. LAST WORD. >> >> A LEGAL QUESTION, CAN'T >> >> A LEGAL QUESTION, CAN'T THE DEMOCRATS GO AFTER WHATEVER THE DEMOCRATS GO AFTER WHATEVER THEY NEED WITHOUT CALLING IT THEY NEED WITHOUT CALLING IT IMPEACHMENT? IMPEACHMENT? AREN'T THERE OTHER JUDICIAL AREN'T THERE OTHER JUDICIAL AVENUES, WAYS, THE SAME THEY ARE AVENUES, WAYS, THE SAME THEY ARE ALREADY DOING IN COURTS, 2-0, ALREADY DOING IN COURTS, 2-0, NOT TO LET UP ON THE LEGAL NOT TO LET UP ON THE LEGAL PROCESS BUT AREN'T THERE WAYS PROCESS BUT AREN'T THERE WAYS WITHOUT CALLING IT IMPEACHMENT WITHOUT CALLING IT IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS TO GET WHAT YOU NEED? HEARINGS TO GET WHAT YOU NEED? THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. >> I AGREE WITH YOU. >> I AGREE WITH YOU. IMPEACHMENT IS LIKE INDICTMENT. IMPEACHMENT IS LIKE INDICTMENT. >> IMPEACHMENT GIVES LAWMAKERS >> IMPEACHMENT GIVES LAWMAKERS THE COURT OF LAW, HEIGHTENS THE THE COURT OF LAW, HEIGHTENS THE INVESTIGATIVE IMPORT OF IT. INVESTIGATIVE IMPORT OF IT. BEYOND THAT, AS I WAS TALKING TO BEYOND THAT, AS I WAS TALKING TO LAWMAKERS YESTERDAY, IF YOU LAWMAKERS YESTERDAY, IF YOU START WITH THE IMPEACHMENT START WITH THE IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS, YOU CAN GO AND SAY PROCEEDINGS, YOU CAN GO AND SAY YOU'RE MAKING A -- THIS WHOLE YOU'RE MAKING A -- THIS WHOLE THING IS DRAWN UP ON WHETHER THING IS DRAWN UP ON WHETHER THERE'S A LEGISLATIVE PURPOSE TO THERE'S A LEGISLATIVE PURPOSE TO THE OVERSIGHT HEARING, WHICH IS THE OVERSIGHT HEARING, WHICH IS SORT OF A MADE UP THING ANYWAY. SORT OF A MADE UP THING ANYWAY. YOU CAN SAY THERE'S A YOU CAN SAY THERE'S A LEGISLATIVE PURPOSE IN THE LEGISLATIVE PURPOSE IN THE LEGISLATIVE HEARINGS IF IT'S A LEGISLATIVE HEARINGS IF IT'S A FORMAL ARTICLE OF IMPEACHMENT. FORMAL ARTICLE OF IMPEACHMENT. >> THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT VIEWS >> THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT VIEWS COMMENCEMENT OF IMPEACHMENT AS A COMMENCEMENT OF IMPEACHMENT AS A STRONGER TOOL THAT WOULD COMPEL STRONGER TOOL THAT WOULD COMPEL THEM TO COOPERATE. THEM TO COOPERATE. >> MAYBE WHERE GRAND JURY >> MAYBE WHERE GRAND JURY MATERIAL IS CONCERNED. MATERIAL IS CONCERNED. BUT IMPEACHMENT IS JUST AN BUT IMPEACHMENT IS JUST AN INDICTMENT. INDICTMENT. YOU DON'T WALK INTO YOUR YOU DON'T WALK INTO YOUR INDICTMENT ONE DAY AND FILE AN INDICTMENT ONE DAY AND FILE AN INDICTMENT, YOU INVESTIGATE INDICTMENT, YOU INVESTIGATE LEADING UP TO THAT. LEADING UP TO THAT. >> THEY WILL GET STRONGER >> THEY WILL GET STRONGER SUBPOENA POWER, ENHANCED SUBPOENA POWER, ENHANCED SUBPOENA POWER. SUBPOENA POWER. >> FRANKLY A DISTINCT WITHOUT A >> FRANKLY A DISTINCT WITHOUT A DIFFERENCE. DIFFERENCE. THE LEGAL STANDARD WHETHER OR THE LEGAL STANDARD WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE JUDICIAL NOT THERE ARE JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS MOVING FOSHD.RWARD. PROCEEDINGS MOVING FOSHD.RWARD. >> I LIKE TO DO ONE LAST THING >> I LIKE TO DO ONE LAST THING LIGHTNING ROUND, DO THEY LIGHTNING ROUND, DO THEY IMPEACH? IMPEACH? >> I DON'T THINK THEY WILL. >> I DON'T THINK THEY WILL. AT LEAST NOT SUCCESSFULLY IN THE AT LEAST NOT SUCCESSFULLY IN THE SENATE. SENATE. >> OF COURSE NOT IN THE SENATE. >> OF COURSE NOT IN THE SENATE. DO YOU THINK THE HOUSE. DO YOU THINK THE HOUSE. >> I THINK THE HOUSE SHOULD BE >> I THINK THE HOUSE SHOULD BE ON THE HEARINGS TO BEGIN WITH. ON THE HEARINGS TO BEGIN WITH. THE FIRST THING THEY CAN DO IS THE FIRST THING THEY CAN DO IS PUSH BACK IN A ROBUST AND PUSH BACK IN A ROBUST AND UNCOMPROMISING WAY WITH THE UNCOMPROMISING WAY WITH THE WHITE HOUSE. WHITE HOUSE. >> MY REPORTING THEY WILL START >> MY REPORTING THEY WILL START IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS. IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS. >> TRUMP IMPEACHMENT >> TRUMP IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS, START THEM TODAY.

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